Friends Don’t Let Friends Get Into Finance

After having been a tech executive for many years, I needed to take a break, and I wanted to give back to society. Duke University engineering dean Kristina Johnson gave me a great spiel about how the school’s Masters of Engineering Management program churns out great engineers, and how engineers solve the world’s problems. She said that I could make a big impact by teaching engineering students about the real world and encouraging them to become entrepreneurs. I felt so excited that I joined the university without even asking for a proper salary. That was in 2005.

I was shocked—and upset—when the majority of my students became investment bankers or management consultants after they graduated.  Hardly any became engineers. Why would they, when they had huge student loans, and Goldman Sachs was offering them twice as much as engineering companies did?

So when the investment banks tanked in 2008, I cheered because engineering had become sexy again for engineering grads (read my BusinessWeek column).

But thanks to the hundred-billion-dollar taxpayer bailouts, investment banks recovered and went back to their old, greedy ways.  And they began offering even more money to engineering grads (and themselves).

Kauffman Foundation’s Paul Kedrosky and Dane Stangler have just published a report that analyses the damage this has done to our economy.

They note that the finance sector today produces a greater percentage of GDP than at any time in history. In the mid-nineteenth century, its contribution was between 1 percent and 2.5 percent of GDP. It peaked at around six percent of GDP at the beginning of the Great Depression, and then fell sharply. Since 1945 it has been steadily increasing, to 8.4 percent over the last two years.

Historians will tell you that empires collapse when they become too dependent on finance, but I’m not so pessimistic. I do, though, share the concern that Kedrosky and Stangler expressed in their paper:

Fewer people are being added to industry employment, but they are coming from new and narrower places. The financial services industry used to consider it a point of pride to hire hungry and eager young high school and college graduates, planning to train them on the job in sales, trading, research, and investment banking. While that practice continues, even if in smaller numbers, the difference now is that most of the industry’s profits come from the creation, sales, and trading of complex products, like the collateralized debt obligations (CDOs) that played a central role in the recent financial crisis. These new products require significant financial engineering, often entailing the recruitment of master’s- and doctoral-level new graduates of science, engineering, math, and physics programs. Their talents have made them well-suited to the design of these complex instruments, in return for which they often make starting salaries five times or more what their salaries would have been had they stayed in their own fields and pursued employment with more tangible societal benefits.

An analysis of MIT’s graduate-employment data shows that the financial sector increased its hiring from 18 percent of its graduates in 2003 to 25 percent in 2006. So not only are the investment banks siphoning off hundreds of billions of dollars from our economy with financial gimmicks like CDOs; they are using our best engineering graduates to help them do this. This is the talent that our country has invested so much resource in producing.

When most sectors of the economy grow, new companies are created. The authors found, however, that the finance sector is not driving firm formation; it is cannibalizing entrepreneurship in the U.S. economy by offering wage and skill premiums to individuals who might otherwise have started companies. It is also causing far greater volatility among publicly traded firms and a reduction in the quality of businesses started.

This chart shows the trend.

The report concludes that a shrinking finance sector will likely lead to a higher entrepreneurship rate and the creation of companies with greater social value, and still provide the financial intermediation services that are most important to young companies. So that’s what we need in order to save this empire: to tame this beast.

Paul Kedrosky says that the virus that infects scientists and engineers and causes them to go to Wall Street rather than create something of societal value is “economic Ebola”. He wants to be an “economic virus hunter”. Let’s all help him. Let’s save the world by keeping our engineers out of finance. We need them to, instead, develop new types of medical devices, renewable energy sources, ways for sustaining the environment and purifying water, and to start companies that help America keep its innovative edge.

  • http://is.linkedin.com/in/balakamallakharan Bala

    I think the analysis is too generalized and not objective, not everyone who worked for banks were part of the CDOs and financial engineering. Many of the young graduates work in understanding credit, risk and industry. Lets not forget the financial service industry is the blood of the system. The financial services companies provide the necessary liquidity needed to take larger development projects to fruition. For example, in the renewable energy development without access to credit it is impossible to build factories that make solar panels, drill for geothermal energy or make carbon fiber used in the wind energy. Credit needs to be used to fund activities that created assets not for speculation like it was in the last decade. Banks play an important role in the last couple of decades with the advent of the capital markets and hedge funds, bankers have been tempted to join the steroid induced leveraged speculation… as long as we stop that and make banks do what they were originally developed for we should be ok. Lets not go from one extreme of the spectrum to the other. There is a higher and middle ground.

  • http://twitter.com/TeamLAFT Luv@FirstTweet Team

    Hi Vivek. this post was interesting but I feel that you ended it as soon as you got to the meat of your point — how to sway graduates into engineering related fields.

    You build up to it and then in your last paragraph say “We need them to, instead, develop new types of medical devices, renewable energy sources, ways for sustaining the environment and purifying water, and to start companies that help America keep its innovative edge.”

    I think what would make a great follow-up post would be how to make such fields interesting vs. the massive paydays they can get by going to Wall St as you mention. It doesn’t just have to be related to money, but can be through by appealing to other senses of fulfillment and accomplishment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/trevoraustin Trevor Austin

    Hey Vivek,

    I agree that starting to use social pressure is a good step towards pushing people out of finance, but surely there are public policy levers we can use to shrink the finance sector too, right? What are your thoughts on a Tobin tax? Are there other policy options you think would work better?

    Trevor

  • Vikas Desai

    I am an engineer and have stuck to my background. I agree to your viewpoint but there are exceptions for example rather than shrinking the Finance Industry. We (Individuals, Society, Government) should figure out a way to increase the other industries at a much faster rate. I would not blame when engineers and scientist rush to Finance jobs, earning wealth is one of the key reasons most people go to college.

    Vikas Desai

  • alins

    Good points, good diagnosis. But can you blame engineers and scientists who flock to fiannce when it pays so well?

    Bottom line: what solution(s) do you propose?

  • http://www.denero.org John DeNero

    Bravo. In my experience, it’s not just good for society to keep engineers engineering, it’s good for the engineers. Even the most successful people I know in the financial sector don’t seem satisfied.

  • IndarKness

    As a student major in mathematics, I don’t want to get into Finance. People should pursue all things they love, money is only one of them.

  • http://twitter.com/mikequity Michael Chen

    Simple to say, but if the value creation in engineering disciplines were as great or greater than finance for society, why is compensation/income so much lower??

  • http://gamelmag.blogspot.com Gameli

    Very interesting post indeed. Scientist and engineers must be encouraged to continue innovating in their own fields to bring the world the solutions it direly needs. As suggested by previous comments, it’ll be great to explore strategies that can be employed to keep scientists and engineers in their labs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jean-Ocelot/713275849 Jean Ocelot

    But here’s the deal.  Once an engineer hits the age of 40, he’s considered to be unemployable, unless there were to happen to be an opening in his *exact* field of expertise.  Of course, the only an engineer gets laid off is precisely when his expertise is no longer in demand.  A prospective engineer who goes into finance can at least make a high enough salary doing that to sock away a bunch so that he gets laid off, he’ll at least have something to live on.

    Oh, and finance folks are not subject quite as much to the brunt of H1B engineers taking their jobs away.

    The only drawback with financial engineering is that there probably is a glut going on now as so many technically astute folks are going into it.

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  • http://greatcreditscore.org Great Credit Score

    It is a shame when all of the countries top minds flock to businesses that almost brought the country down. But i also think that the growth of the internet makes it easier for people to become entrepreneurs, so many of the engineers that went into finance might start their own internet projects.

  • Kb

    I was an engineer, I have a BS and MS in Elec Engineering – After graduation, I accepted a job at a top bank making a lot more than I would have as an engineer. I miss engineering and analytical thinking, but if I was to repeat it again, I would still follow the same path, engineers can learn anything, and understand anything, we have the upper hand in almost any career (even medicine – if we were to pursue it)…. its all about getting to your maximum potential .. in career and money.

  • Kpcofgs54

    This is a biased and ridiculous post. What do you know about investment banking or consulting, and on what are you basing your decision that working in an engineering firm, doing grunt work for little money is somehow better than creating economic value and being around other top talent from around the world? 

    If you are to blame anyone, blame the super-capitalist government that we currently have, and the people who elected the politicians that enabled such a government to appear. Don’t blame college graduates for making the best decision for themselves. 

  • Eb

    The flaw in your thesis lies in the fact that the Financial Sector IS THE EMPIRE.  The American Empire is at its heart a Financial Empire.  Take away finance (as we eventually must) and the Empire will collapse.

  • Kpcofgs54

    Kb is right, even though engineers obviously don’t compare to mathematicians, computer scientists, physicists, etc, but the rest of this misguided, ignorant hatred is absurd and pathetic.

  • Anirudh Nellutla

    I agree with you analysis Dr. Wadhwa… but as you pointed out correctly, for most students, expediency trumps interest – most of us have to pay back loans and if you are not a US citizen, the monetary crunch is felt even more strongly – as very clearly the immigration laws guarantee nothing! so in the little time available, I would have to learn, make some money for the whole exercise to make sense….